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Cyrus Mierre
The Forsaken Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.18 15:11:00 -
[1]
+1 for the Vargur; High dps, low rate of fire, no hastle with target painters/travel time, super-high tracking to hit even the small stuff
As a point of reference, I have flown the Golem, CNR, Domi in lvl4s in my time
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Cyrus Mierre
The Forsaken Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.18 22:30:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Liang Nuren
And FWIW, the Vargur doesn't one shot them that often either when they're at 80km.
Sorry but it really does. 2x TE in mids with tracking script means that the tracking is above 0.13. As ya know the tracking makes up for sig on guns blah blah... Falloff of 64km with short range ammo (or about 76km with range scripts), or failing that, 114km falloff with barrage means that frigs are very often one-shotted with non-faction ammo all the way down to 12-15km (in which case it might be 2-shots)
<3 Varg
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Cyrus Mierre
The Forsaken Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.18 23:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Cyrus Mierre
Originally by: Liang Nuren
And FWIW, the Vargur doesn't one shot them that often either when they're at 80km.
Sorry but it really does. 2x TE in mids with tracking script means that the tracking is above 0.13. As ya know the tracking makes up for sig on guns blah blah... Falloff of 64km with short range ammo (or about 76km with range scripts), or failing that, 114km falloff with barrage means that frigs are very often one-shotted with non-faction ammo all the way down to 12-15km (in which case it might be 2-shots)
<3 Varg
at that range it might 1 volley them, but it won't one shot them. 
By 'one-shot' I do mean literally one salvo in the vast majority of cases
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Cyrus Mierre
The Forsaken Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.18 23:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cyrus Mierre
Sorry but it really does. 2x TE in mids with tracking script means that the tracking is above 0.13. As ya know the tracking makes up for sig on guns blah blah... Falloff of 64km with short range ammo (or about 76km with range scripts), or failing that, 114km falloff with barrage means that frigs are very often one-shotted with non-faction ammo all the way down to 12-15km (in which case it might be 2-shots)
<3 Varg
I regularly fly a 2 TE 2 TC Vargur with a 5% falloff implant. It does not do this.
-Liang
I'm afraid I'm drawing a blank as to what we might be doing differently
@OP: For what its worth I stand by my convictions, but in my experience Liang knows what he's talking about. I love the vargur for its DPS and tracking (i can't really imagine one ship being physically able to kill stuff faster than it does), but if anyone suggests a faster ship/setup I havent tried then fair enough.
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Cyrus Mierre
The Forsaken Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.19 16:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 19/12/2010 01:21:05
Originally by: Cyrus Mierre
I'm afraid I'm drawing a blank as to what we might be doing differently
I didn't mean to imply it never happens. But its by no means a certainty, and it isn't uncommon for frigs to take more than a volley at range. I haven't bothered to analyze which frigs aren't getting vaporized, and it may simply be the frigs I'm shooting. Take a Taibu State Shuriken: 2459 EHP to lowest resist (Kin). At Optimal + Falloff/2 (~67km) we have Barrage dealing an expected 2020 raw volley damage and Fleet Phased Plasma dealing ~1625 raw volley at the same range. Notably, neither situation should have enough raw damage on average to volley the frig (let alone one shot!), nevermind that its actually of the wrong damage type.
I honestly don't know how you do it.
-Liang
Ed: FWIW, a Mordus Bounty Hunter has ~2205 EHP on kin/thm... barrage might volley it if it had the right damage type (I'd guess ~50% of the time since its so close!)
OK fair enough, the Shuriken is what i call an 'elite' frig with high resists (akin to arch gistii, loyal sansha etc) and they may take two salvos (first salvo having taken them into low armor/structure), but all of the regular frigates will struggle to break 1kEHP on lowest (or in some cases 1.5kEHP on the exp/kin split of Barrage ammo). In fact I don't use RF ammo, only meta 0; this still 1-salvos standard frigs and 2-salvos elites.
Using the volley damages you quoted all standard frigs are one-salvoed, but to tip it even more in our favour you could perhaps consider using 2x optimal range scripts beyond 40km-50km, especially if sticking with the short-range ammo. That should noticably increase your short-range ammo volley damage at that sorta range. Personally, I'd only switch to barrage beyond 60-70km.
TL;DR: elite frigs = 2-salvoed, regular = 1-salvoed, even with meta0 ammo
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